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Writeup:Resurrecting

From Wikiturbine

Contents 1 ATTENTION: 1.1 This article is DEPRECATED. 1.1.1 Please see Neoturbine_v5 2 Overview 3 Resurrection Plan 4 Feature List 5 Work Sign-up List 6 Coding 7 Design 7.1 Logo 8 Future Implementations 8.1 Network Sites

ATTENTION:

This article is DEPRECATED.

Please see Neoturbine_v5

This is a clean version by DimaV. Please tag your name to the comments.

Overview

It's all quite simple. After a few hardware crashes we are left with no front site and no organization. To quote Steve:

"Well, the last wiki was lost with all the other MySQL databases on my server. Let's use this so we can figure out just how we're going to get this network back on its feet after these truly unfortunate events. I'd write more but as of now I'm busy getting other services back up and running."

So if any of you want to get off our fat asses I am sure we can do it again and maybe right this time.

Resurrection Plan

1. Figure out what primary (and secondary) features we want (see below.)
2. Figure out who is actually putting their time on this and where (see below.)
3. Vote on a design, and I do mean DESIGN, not something you threw together in 5 minutes (see below.)
   1. what's below? i don't see it. where are we going to vote?
      1. We will throw in all of the designs in the design section below and then vote in irc. - DimaV
         1. When are we going to vote? Htns 23:02, 18 September 2007 (EDT)
            1. Looks like we are just going to round-robin them, not sure --DimaV 21:43, 19 September 2007 (EDT)
4. Make a clean bill of 1st features to implement. Keep up to the KISS (Keep it Simple, Stupid!) principle.
5. Code so that we don't have to hack everything for any change (separation of content and style).
6. Implement more advanced features by vote.
7. Consider other network websites to code later.

Feature List

Feel free to nicely add to and edit this list.

1. "Round-robin" implementation of the design. I.E., have a couple of the designs we like more circulate randomly on a regular basis. --DimaV 01:18, 17 September 2007 (EDT)
   1. since round robin is basically randomness.. can't we switch the css files via. javascript everytime the page loads or on all even/odd days (lol)? it'll save lots of load on the server(s).
   2. Regular basis could be that. Stress on servers? We got no traffic really.
   3. Lets be clear on a few things....round robin is a DNS term meaning that one domain name -> a list of ips, and the list retrieved in a DNS request is in random order (the first one is the one thats tried). so, i think what we're looking for is javascript/css based way of doing this Sargas
2. Home page
   1. Blog-style updates, members will be able to post youtube links, weblinks, pictures of random stuff (see myconfinedspace.com for example), news ranging from world events to individual interests, etc.
      1. We can use Coranto for this. We wont have to spend lots of time writing code (and reinventing the wheel). Its very light weight and heavily customizable. I don't know if it features a comment system (I assume it doesn't.) Sahal
      2. Correct, Coranto is a full news system, and while it doesn't come with a comment system by default, we can easily implement it through the many readily-available plugins circulating on the net. Stiv2k
      3. woah! I just found Pyblosxom (Pidgin's site uses it). It's like half the size of Coranto (if you just look at the download). It has lots of plugins. Plus, "PyBlosxom plugins are fairly easy to write..." if we ever feel the need to write our own.
   2. Public comment system where we can comment each other on our posts, perhaps we can vote on posts
   3. Server info, portal info (what kind of info?)
      1. I think it'd be cool to have a Google Maps sort of map on our site, showing the location of all the servers and their links to each other, and perhaps even a green/red status indicator? If they click on one of the servers a little bubble window will appear showing more detailed info. Just an idea. - Stiv2k 18:59, 29 September 2007
3. bring back our old QDB :P
4. About Us page
   1. Our ugly mugs with links to our sites, short bio on each of us
   2. Info about Neoturbine
5. Portal page
   1. Links to subsites
6. Private Things
   1. Webirc
   2. Webmail
   3. Squid server (for proxy usage, preferably on accessible locally (so ssh tunnels required))
      1. I already have one set up on neoturbine.net (using ssh tunnels and privoxy)... If anyone wants to help me improve on it (like use a SOCKS proxy instead of HTTP proxy etc) let me know
      2. Use SSH port forwarding/tunneling instead of using a 'real' SOCKS proxy. SSH Tunnels are encrypted and can be used as SOCKS proxies (best of both worlds).
   4. Jabber?
   5. Collections page
      1. Place where members can upload various things, like music, apps, and interesting stuff like that. Could somehow be integrated to the main page.
      2. sounds scary. this would need careful implementation so no security holes occur.
      3. that above collection page part of this? if so, might as well just use sftp
      4. I second that motion. Sahal

Work Sign-up List

Write yourself in if you want to participate. Format as follows: Name - possible place or application

• DimaV - code cleaning, organization, design
• fry - design, php/back-end, whatever
• sargas - coding someday, but still getting adjusted to college + job(s) + club(s)
• sahal - anything that needs to be done... that i can help with :)
• htns - standing by...

Coding

Coding suggestions, such as in what language we should script the website.

• For our site, we have to use Ruby on Rails. Not only is it the future of web development, but we will be able to focus on coding the actual features of the website instead of working on minute security holes and technicalities. Also, we'll get to use cool Web 2.0 features like AJAX with simplicity and ease. Yeas on RoR? -Htns 23:48, 18 September 2007 (EDT)

• Ruby on rails is simply a framework, there are frameworks like it in other languages too. AJAX is not a feature of the framework (RoR is much much more then that), AJAX is really more like a javascript library. A decision to use RoR is really only relevant if we use ruby, and ruby does not play well with apache (aparently using ruby with mongrel webserver + apache as a proxy is more common). Also, if we go with ruby, we should start coding/learning the (beta? alpha?) 2.0 version to save us a later upgrade. - Sargas with some talking w/ a ruby dev on the train
  • I am fully aware that there are different frameworks for PHP/MySQL. However, Ruby on Rails is a one of kind whereas the PHP establishment has multitudes of frameworks where one isn't very popular with the general public.

1. Also, the key thing about Ruby on Rails is that it makes web development and design MUCH easier than using PHP. Why? Utilizing Web2.0 technologies is much easier with Ruby on Rails rather than using PHP+framework combo due to the fact that ror was specifically created with AJAX features in mind.
2. As with the server issue. I'm not familiar with that, however, there are many people over at #rubyonrails over on FreeNode that'll give great suggestions on how to run RoR.
3. I've been coding in ruby (for rails) since RoR version 0.x. It's at version 1.2 right now, and I have not had any major or minor issues with it. Mainly, the version changes reflect upon the changes made in rails (which is the framework) rather than on ruby (which is the language). And since the language semantics and syntax sporatically changes for Ruby, you won't have to worry about issues analogous to the upgrade from PHP 4.x to PHP 5.x.
4. As far as I know, Ruby on Rails is growing very fast. Remember that RoR only came out in 2004 and in three years, it's already making lots of noise in the community. In fact, recent reports cites that, "Ruby On Rails, also referred to as Rails or RoR is used by some of the leading Web 2.0 applications on the internet today and was ranked as the number one technology you need to know about in 2007."
5. I know that there will be a lot of resistance against Ruby on Rails, especially by the PHP establishment (which Sargas is clearly part of). It's time to embrace the future, I predict that in five years, Ruby on Rails will be something that web developers will have to know in order to gain a foot in the market. And as what they always say, "It's never too early to start." - Htns 18:50, 29 September 2007 (EDT)

• How are we going to effectively manage the development of the website? Should we use something like a cvs/subversion system, so people don't accidentally overwrite other stuff and whatnot.... -Stiv2k
  • yes. I don't care how. Sargas
  • 10/20/07 -- I have just setup a subversion server at http://websvn.neoturbine.net, please see this page before using: Subversion. With this we can begin coding the new site. I want to see some commits!
  • [1] is the old new website w/ my scripts, perhaps we can adopt these? --22:53, 26 October 2007 (EDT)Sargas

• Guys, I've been hearing rumors that we're going to use VB-Bulletin or some kind of crappy forum software. I can guarantee that if we ever use something like that, noone, especially me, is going to use it. I want everything (or at least 99%) of this site to be handcoded. - Htns 22:40, 30 September 2007 (EDT)
  • You're the only one pushing the use of frameworks --Sargas 22:53, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

Design

Design submissions. See #1 on the feature list for a possible idea.

• sahal's mockup based on this idea-graphic by Joel
  • fry's mockup based on Sahal's
• another mockup by fry
• yet another mockup by fry
• DimaV's header design
• Just found this on Dima's site: Neoturbine v5.0
• htns design concept

Logo

• Why the fuck do we need one? They are usually simple graphics for paper headers and such. Worry about this later people!
• I propose the motto for NeoturbineNET to be 'aut disce aut discede.' It's Latin for 'Either learn or leave,' which IMHO is fitting for this community since we all love to learn. Right?
  • Cheeky, let's use it! --DimaV 01:01, 17 September 2007 (EDT)
  • There's a whole list of Latin quotes over here: Latin quotes. Post your favs. --Htns 01:30, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

Future Implementations

Add advanced features here:

1. Secure WebIRC

• what's the point of it being secure? IRC is plain text sent unencrypted (at least how we have it setup). no privacy.
• maybe you mean authenticated? -- authentication isn't necessary either because unlike our old WebIRC client, CGI::IRC, PJIRC runs locally (on the clients computer).
  • No, that is not true. CGI:IRC is a CGI script (written in PERL?) meaning it runs on the server-side. This, I remember caused heavy load on the machine when just one person was using it. PJIRC, a Java Applet, runs on the client-side in their browser. -stiv2k
    • that's exactly what i said "... unlike our old WebIRC client, CGI::IRC, PJIRC runs locally"

1. Assurance that our shaky servers won't die as much

• we don't need all our servers to be stable -- just hubs.
• who's going to assure anything. we're the ones running the servers.

1. We need to BACK UP our stuff!! see Bacula - The network backup solution

• I agree about storing backups across servers (a fire in chicago won't hurt an oregon server). We should use rsync and cron scripts instead of bacula as joe recommended.

Network Sites

1. NeoCon - photos, updates on upcoming neocon, info, rules, voting for date and guest list (by login and invite)
   1. voting for guest list? neoturbine is a public place!
      1. voting on DATES not people. - dima
      2. The website is public, the event isn't. We need to more prepared (online invites), even tho last time rocked the house. - dima

1. Wintermute - Dima's yet to be scrapped server @iit. Coming when DimaV can scrap money enough for hardware.
   1. what kind of hardware do you need? i have some PC100 RAM. I also have a couple of hard disk drives, CD ROM drives, video cards, and other random hardware you might not need to run a server. of course, you'll need to do some dumpster diving to find a shitbox suitable for our abuse.
      1. not building a shitbox this time around. heavy duty rig....altho maybe not -dima
2. Wikiturbine - Yes we have it, but we can skin it and implement it.
   1. what do you mean by implement?
      1. USE IT! for neoturbine ressurection, for other projects, for nt history - dima

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